With Carson Palmer, the Bengals seem like a team that's not very good, but not quite 0-6 bad. WIthout him, they're every bit as bad as 0-6.

And now, for the eighth time in 41 seasons, the Bengals have started 0-6. They were also 0-6 in 1978, '79, '91, '93, '94, 2000 and 2002.

"It hurts, it hurts," said wide receiver Chad Ocho Cinco. "It's frustrating and I have no room to vent my frustrations, I'm walking a fine line already as it is. All I can do is go out there and work. Just work. Just work and keep on smiling. And you know behind that smile, there's a lot of frustration."

Now, the question is how long will they be without Carson Palmer? Palmer is seeing a specialist on Monday, hoping to hear he can play sooner. What Palmer said was, "hopefully he'll have a different opinion and I'll be able to play next week."

Palmer's been told it's an injury only rest will heal. But he doesn't want to rest.

"I'm not shutting anything down," Palmer said. "I'll play when they give me clearance to play and if they tell me to sit, I'll sit. But once I get clearance to play, whether we're 9-6 or 0-15, I'm going to play."

It looks as if Ryan Fitzpatrick will be starting for a while. I'd expect him to start at the very least the three games leading into the bye week. If he can do that, Palmer will have rested his elbow for five weeks leading into the Nov. 16 game against the Eagles.

* As much heat as offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski is getting -- and deservedly so -- it's about time to widen that scope and place a bit of blame on Paul Alexander, who holds the title of assistant head coach/offensive line.

The offensive line play all season has been bad, and Alexander has his players on the line. All of the team's offensive linemen have been acquired during his 14 years as offensive line coach.

The Bengals gave up five sacks (along with rushing for 2.0 yards per carry) on Sunday and have now allowed 19 in six games. Last season they allowed 17 in 16 games. The Bengals have allowed 11 sacks in two games at Giants Stadium this year.

"The offense as a hole, we’re not getting it done," said guard Andrew Whitworth. "The front, everywhere. Whether it’s running the football or pass protection, we’re not getting it done."

* The answer at running back doesn't appear to be on the roster.

When asked about Perry, Marvin Lewis said, "We need to take a hard look at that and see what the best thing is for us as we go forward."

Chris Perry appears to lack confidence. In addition to his abysmal performance running the ball on Sunday 11 carries for 14 yards), he dropped a sure first-down pass from Fitzpatrick and was blown up into Fitzpatrick for a sack in the fourth quarter while trying to block.

Cedric Benson did little to build on last week's promising performance. More and more it looks like the Bears made the wrong choice not only in the 2005 draft, but also before last season when they traded Thomas Jones to the Jets in order to make Benson the feature back. Jones had three touchdowns against the Bengals on Sunday. Kenny Watson has nice numbers, but (a 4.6 yard per carry average), but he has not only been hurt, but if you take out his three carries on third-and-long (and none of those were good for a first down) he is averaging 3.25 yards per carry. And one of those is a 6-yard gain after the two-minute warning.

Perry and Kenny Irons are the only halfbacks drafted by the Bengals since Rudi Johnson was taken in the fourth round of the 2001 draft. Perry has appeared to be a bust and Irons, a second-round pick in 2007, was cut before this season.

* Once again, the Bengals played without either of their rookie wide receivers, taken in the secodn adn third rounds.

When asked about those picks, Marvin Lewis bristled and asked if the questioner wanted them to play ahead of Chad Ocho Cinco and T.J. Houshmandzadeh. Sure, they shouldn't, but then why were they drafted? Weren't there other needs of the team? Like, defensive tackle and center.

* For the first time this season, the Bengals' other third-round pick, defensive tackle Pat Sims was active for the game. Sims, who had battled some nagging injuries through the first part of the season, had five total tackles and a quarterback hurry in his NFL debut.

"It’s been a long time, but I finally got my opportunity and was able to show the coaches what I’m capable of doing," Sims said.

Sims was active because veteran tackle John Thonrton was out with an Achillies injury.

"It’s been tough, I’ve been wanting to play for a while and I’ve just got to wait my turn. Eventually I got my turn, it was this weekend and I took advantage of it," Sims said. "I felt good about it. I just went out and competed every play and did my best. ... I just wanted to go out there and play football, that’s all I’ve wanted to do. ... You’ve just got to wait your turn and when your name is called, be ready."

* Marvin Lewis rarely says much of substance in press conferene situations, but he's even less enlightening after games.

"The disappointment of the loss starts with us not getting anything going offensively. We're not moving the ball effectively enough," Lewis said.

"Defensively, they're doing some good thigns, but again, it's the drive. We've got one drive in the fourth quarter where if you get them off the field, it makes a big difference in the football game. We have to get the guy ont he ground and tackle him when the ball is out in the flat and make them convert on fourth down. For the most part, our guys did some good thigns, but again, it's not enough."

He did not exactly give Ryan Fitzpatrick a vote of confidence: "I'd rather reserve my judgement until I watch the tape."

Stats of note

* The Bengals are 0-10 at Giants Stadium in their history and 0-2 this year.

* Under Marvin Lewis, the Bengals entered into the game 24-5 when they won the turnover margin. They won that margin on Sunday, 3-1, but lost the game.

* The Jets started five drives in Bengals' territory and three inside the Bengals' 35.

* The Bengals have allowed 19 sacks this season -- two more than all of last season.

* Seriously, 2.9 yards per offensive play. 171 yards of total offense.

* Time of possession: Giants 35:18, Bengals 24:42. Coming into the game, the Bengals' defense had been on the field nearly six minutes more than its offense per game. It didn't get any better.

* Chris Henry had one catch for 13 yards.

* The longest offensive play for the Bengals is 16.

* Corey Lynch had his first interception.

* The Bengals have 139 carries for 433 yards rushing this season. That's a pace of 1,155 for the season -- a franchise low.

* In the previous 40 seasons, the Bengals have only averaged less than 100 yards rushing a game four times -- this season they've only rushed for 100 yards as a team once, against the Giants.

Quotes

Carson Palmer: "When you don't have a running game, it doesn't open up the passing attack and it makes it especially hard on Ryan (Fitzpatrick). It's also demoralizing offesnively."

Chris Perry on competition: "I don’t worry about nothing. I just want us to win. If you can come in here and run better than me, you obviously deserve the job."

Chad Ocho Cinco: "I feel we can drop back and throw it if we didn’t have a running back because we can get open every down. We’re not even doing that. We’re going to continue to establish the run and the pass will be second. We need to run the ball, because running the ball is important."

Chinedum Ndukwe: "We did a pretty solid job against the pass and had a couple of INTs. He didn’t make the big plays, but he made enough to win."

Ndukwe on the TD: "Odom made a heck of a play and I always run to the ball. I was there at the right time and I was able to scoop it up and make a play." (Was it a blitz?) "It was more of a read, I was playing middle man on the tight end, and once the tight end stayed in to block, I was chasing after Favre and was in the right place at the right time."

Fitzpatrick: "It was a struggle out there today and we’ve got to go back out to the drawing board and figure it out."

Fitzpatrick on the TD drive: "I was playing pitch and catch with the receivers. We were getting the ball out quick. They softened up a little bit, s we wanted to take advantage of some of those holes in the secondary. At the end of the half, we were in the offensive mode to throw the ball and move it because of the time situation. It worked out, which was nice."

Fitzpatrick on the offense: "It was our inability on first and second down to get completions and yardage, and then the third-and-long situations were tough to get. ...  It was one of those games on third and long they dropped their guys."

Fitzpatrick on starting: "I'm definitely more comfortable out there. The more you're out there, the more comfortable you're going to get. Defensively, there wasn't anything out there that surprised us today."

Jets RB Thomas Jones: "To play football and to really win, you have to run the ball. When I was in Chicago and we went to the Super Bowl, we were able to run the ball regardless of what defense we were going against, whether it was eight or nine guys in the box, we were able to run the ball."

Jets S Kerry Rhodes: "The front did a good job of applying pressure so we didn't have to blitz as much, whcih is always great. It really allows us to keep maximum coverage. If we can do that, it's going to be a hard day for any quarterback."