Mr. Redlegs

    Draft Overview: The Ripple Over Yonder

    Saturday, June 7, 2008, 10:04 AM EST [General]

    On the surface it appears the Reds had an alright day in the first six rounds of the amateur player draft, but beneath the surface the growing philosophical differences between some of former GM Wayne Krivsky's old staff and those who hope to stay with newer GM Walt Jocketty have begun to percolate.

    The selection of University of Miami 1b Yonder Alonso was the first ripple as the Reds made college players five of their six selections, including two pitchers. In the press cafeteria at Nationals Park in Washington, a huddle of advance scouts was busy-bodying about the draft between games of a Nats-Cards doubleheader amid murmurs that Krivsky was close to landing a new job with either the Mets or Twins. Said an AL Central scout: "Wayne would not have had this draft [if he was with the Reds]."

    Jocketty gave Reds director of scouting Chris Buckley and development chief Terry Reynolds great leeway in the draft and the belief among some scouts is Buckley was too heavy on college players, especially short-term relief pitchers, while the team didn't do enough to address organizational needs. The famous "best player available" didn't apply, according to my friend the NL West scout, because he doesn't believe Alonso is a frontline starter.



    "He's strictly a first base/DH type who's probably a bat off the bench," the scout projected. Pressed further, including word that Alonso can play some third base or catch, the scout waved off the notion as "garbage."

    The selection of Alonso isn't without curiosity. No one questions his ability to hit. An AL East scout countered by saying Alonso might be Edgar Martinez minus the .317 career batting average—hitting gaps, putting the ball in play, 30 homers. That's all very inviting, very encouraging. The Reds cleared a spot on the 40-man roster just prior to the draft, raising the possibility their selection would be demanding a major league contract with a stipulation for a September call-up to Cincinnati. Alonso reportedly is seeking an $8 million signing bonus . . . as the No. 7 pick. Yeah, good luck with that. One scout said Alonso was likely just two years from the big leagues.

    But with rookies in 1b Joey Votto and OF Jay Bruce looking like the real deals, where in the near future do the Reds have room for yet another middle-of-the-order left-handed bat? Especially if they intend to re-sign Adam Dunn? Maybe that's the catch. Maybe the selection of Alonso means the exit of Dunn with Votto moving to left field. Some also wonder if Alonso or Votto will be trade bait in the near future because a lefty lineup of Bruce batting 3rd, Alonso cleanup, Dunn No. 5 and Votto 2 or 6 isn't happening.

    Said Buckley of Alonso: "He may just be a first baseman, but we think he is an outstanding defensive first baseman. He is a big, mature guy. He is a very good first baseman."

    Translation: Votto to the outfield if Alonso arrives to the big leagues. 

    Not so fast, said another source, who believes owner Bob Castellini sincerely wants Dunn signed long term. Then why waste a pick on a left-handed, position-limited bat such as Alonso when switch-hitting, better-gloved Justin Smoak of the University of South Carolina was there until the 12th pick to Texas? Or what about RHP Aaron Crow of Missouri, who might be ready for the majors next year? Many draft experts expected the Reds to take University of Georgia shortstop Gordon Beckham, who was quickly taken by the White Sox after the Reds passed.

    Another issue with yesterday's picks is the Reds still haven't addressed their catching depth issues in the minors (or majors, for that matter). The selection of Delaware shortstop Alexander Buchholz in the sixth round caused the AL East scout to say "utility infielder." 

    All of this re-routes to Buckley's scouting strengths and draft preferences. Most baseball people know Buckley has a sharp eye for hitters. Pitchers? Not so much. The Reds have solid reliever depth in the minors and the selection of Texas Tech reliever Zachary Stewart and N.C. State starter Clayton Shunick, who one scout projects a reliever, bypassed an organizational need—stockpiling young arms.

    "The Reds have a solid group of short-term relievers close to the majors," said an NL East scout. "They probably should have followed [the Braves'] philosophy and drafted high school pitchers to build some depth in the lower parts of their system."

    Buckley did select Georgia prep pitcher Tyler Cline, the 24th prospect in the state, in the fourth round. When that selection hit the boards, one scout said, "What are the Reds doing?"



    Flashback: Do you remember the Reds' last Ty Cline? He was involved in the famous Elrod Hendricks phantom tag collision at the plate in Game 1 of the 1970 World Series. Cline hit a chopper in front of the plate, Bernie Carbo raced home from third. Hendricks fielded the ball then made a spinning, swiping tag attempt. He and umpire Ken Burkhardt became entangled, Hendricks tagged Carbo with the glove with the ball in his other hand, and Burkhardt, on his rump, called Carbo out. Sparky and Carbo went nuts and it became a blown call that changed the Series.

    Anyway, the broader point is Uncle Walt hasn't made any changes to Krivsky's staff because he wanted no distractions leading up to the draft. But several team insiders say they expect the natural front office and scouting attrition shortly, especially if Krivsky can make some hires in his new job.

    As for the draft, the gaggle of scouts loafing about Nationals Park Thursday between games agreed this isn't a very deep draft and there's no purpose in getting too worked up. Many like Alonso's bat but think he's an American League player and a bad fit for the Reds. And don't forget: As Trent Rosecrans points out on his blog, Uncle Walt has a long history of trading top-end prospects for proven Major League players. Could that be the thinking with this selection of Alonso? Best player available now, deal from strength later? Hmmmm.

    4 (1 Ratings)

    Mr. R
    Thanks for an insightful look at the Reds draft. As with most of the other "fans/GM hopefuls", I wondered why the Reds drafted a first baseman.
    I thought maybe they were going to convert him to another position but your posting seemed to dispell that idea. Are the Reds that thin of first basemen in the minor leagues? Another question is, are the Reds willing to pay the supposed 8 million demand and bring him up in September? How would that affect the morale of some of the other minor leaguers who are ready to make their debut in the big leagues?
    What happens if the Reds are not willing to pay that kind of money? I know they get the same draft pick again next year if they do not sign him but then it would seem like you kind of wasted a pick.
    Could the thought process be that he may be part of a trade packge along with a couple of the other draftees?
    Questions, questions, questions and very few answers.Now if I had been the GM this is how I would have drafted............and we would have been in deep poo afterwards.

    ohioredsfan1
    June 06, 2008
    08:58 AM EST

    Scouts and their opinions are about as reliable as Brandon Phillips facing a right handed pitcher. An occasional hit and many misses. The Reds have been doing a good job of drafting and developing and have one of the higher rated farm systems now. I'll put my trust in these guys. They've already explained that they draft for value and not current need because value can be traded for need later and you don't know what you'll need in 3 years. I'm sure plenty of people scrutinized the Reds for picking "another outfielder" in the first round of 2005. How's that looking now? Suddenly Bruce is the only guy we can really rely on for the next 6 years. Anyone who wants to argue that Alonzo wasn't a good pick with his numbers (especially plate discipline) isn't worth putting stock in.

    DontGiveARats
    June 06, 2008
    10:18 AM EST

    Good stuff. I find the Alonso pick curious, but low-risk. If the guy's that good, they'll find a place for him. Remember when the Reds had Casey and Broussard at the same time? Larkin and Stillwell? One guy usually tends to shine a little brighter, but the other can be traded for decent swag (Stillwell begat Danny Jackson; Broussard landed the mighty Russ Branyan, but that's Bowden for you).

    Do you know how the Reds project Zachary Stewart? I just checked the TT website, and it seems he was put into the rotation in late April. (His coach even thought it was a good idea to have him throw 130 pitches with a 7-2 lead his last start).

    As for the sixth rounder, I would frankly be pleased if he developed into a utility guy at the major league level. I remember hearing the same thing about Valaika, Turner, Janish, and even Frazier on draft day. That seems to be the tag placed on every middle infielder taken after the first round (and it's usually right!).

    Chris at RedlegNatio...
    June 06, 2008
    10:58 AM EST

    Rat, it's conversation, dude. Interesting conversation. Milquetoast is served on Reds.com.

    Mr. Redlegs
    June 06, 2008
    11:02 AM EST

    Yeah, Chris, I think CTR makes an excellent point in today's "Thinking Out Loud" that Uncle Walt has a long history of swapping high-end prospects for frontline major-leaguers. But I do love my gaggle of advance scouts.

    Mr. Redlegs
    June 06, 2008
    11:06 AM EST
    First Previous 1 2 Next Last

Blog Categories